Norway Massacre: Gun Control…

Norway Massacre: Gun Control…

First off let me offer my condolences to the families of the victims of this horrendous crime.

Second let me make it perfectly clear where I stand.

As the death toll continues to rise in Norway’s apparently related bombing and shooting attacks, a few truths are once again revealed for any who would see:

  • Unarmed victims are defenseless and easy prey for any evil lunatic bent on slaughtering them at will. The adults at the youth camp were utterly unprepared to protect themselves, let alone their charges.
  • People instinctively don’t question an armed man if he appears to be a police officer. Many of the same people react with horror at the sight of an armed citizen.
  • The best defense against an active shooter is others with guns—it was not the unarmed who took the suspect into custody.
  • Once more, “gun control” has proven useless. Many reports, if accurate, say the gunman used “automatic weapons,” which, except for some tightly regulated collector exemptions, are banned from civilian ownership in Norway.
  • Once more, the race is on to tar an entire demographic for the actions of a deranged and monstrous individual, and to conflate “conservatives” with violent extremists.

And once more, expect to hear renewed calls for more citizen disarmament, that is, an expansion of the potential victim pool for those who count on such measures to make their diabolical tasks all the more easily executed.

The fact is if you disarm the public, you must protect that public or slaughter the public. This is what happens time and time again and the same people come out screaming about the gun he used, rather than the laws that prevented OTHER guns to be a deterrent.

People in America we have a choice. We can fight to KEEP our 2nd Amendment rights and actually USE THAT RIGHT. Or we can continue to allow them to be weakened, then wait for something like this and cry about it. We could mourn the deaths of few or the deaths of MANY. We cannot keep guns out of the hands of those intent on these types of acts, but we can take them out of the hands of those who will prevent it.

The current Administration will be using this incident as reason to restrict our gun rights even further. You must fight that with every fiber of your being. You must engage the anti’s at all times with facts and common sense. DO NOT allow them to paint guns as the culprit.

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54 Replies to “Norway Massacre: Gun Control…”

    1. Thanks Jewamongyou. Freedom of speech can’t be guaranteed with out the means to back it up. Meaning speech gets regulated as soon as the citizens are disarmed. Think Russia, China, Iran, and many other places that have restricted speech and firearms.

      My point is this is just going to give the Anti-Gun crowd ammunition to remove our rights. Then when shit like happens again they’ll move further into removal of all guns in our nation. What then? Will bad people still have guns? YES and so will our officials. Then it’s too late. We are sheep.

      From my cold dead hands and it will be empty. Along with my friends, family and every freedom loving American. You will not take our guns, you will not regulate them to uselessness.

  1. Yes. I think that the two freedoms go hand in hand. The restriction of one leads to a vicious cycle with the other. But I agree with you that it all starts with the freedom to bear arms.

  2. I would also like to start by saying my condolences to those who lost loved ones in this tragedy!I come from a country that has seen 30 years of terror forced upon the innocent and the DEFENCELESS! thousands of people either blown up or slaughterd mercelessly at the hands of many gunmen(terrorists) and i agree that we should have had the right to defend ourselves and the people we loved! many a terrorist/gunman would think twice about entering a packed out bar and opening fire if he thought the crowd could fire back! Unfortunatly in northern ireland the guns still remain in the hands of the terrorists and thats where they will stay! Hats off to the 2nd amendment America!

    1. Yes Sir Edd. In Northern Ireland you have seen your share of bloodshed. Cowards normally don’t fight fair. Fact. Cowards will attack soft targets. FACT. Our 2nd Amendment WHEN UTILIZED cuts down on innocent bloodshed by 50% FACT. We see it all over the place. Schools, Hospitals, Camps, Wherever there is a gun free zone, there is a potential for this kind of disaster. People will blame ideology, they will blame the GUN, they will blame everything but the REAL culprit which is so simple it’s stupid: An armed society is a polite society. At the very least it’s a FAIR society.

      I can only assume that if any of the adults on that island had a gun the death count would have been far less. Instead they had two options. Hide and Hope. That’s it. Not much hope in hiding on an Island.

  3. Once again, the police arrive way after the crime victims are dead. Now that’s what I call gun control! I guess that works everywhere, not just the US.

    1. Damian, Yep that’s the real problem. Folks don’t understand COPS are first responders. They show up after the fact. They get a call and respond. They are not there to PREVENT anything unless an extreme amount of luck is involved. This is why I carry a gun. A cop is too heavy.

  4. The only problem with this article is that I couldn’t print it for inclusion in my sermon tomorrow! True story. 🙂

  5. Chris — It’s a good thing for the Aussies, here in the USA? Not so much…

    Ya see, here’s the deal Chris, not too many people give a damn what happens in Australia, ya see, you’re like a 95 year old woman’s *SEX ORGAN*, everyone knows it’s down there, no one really cares…

    And Chris, “Satistics don’t lie”…

    What the hell is a Satistic? Did you mean statistic? I’ll bet you did… Now, go play somewhere else because your anti-gun bullshit just won’t float here…

  6. To “Chris”

    Stop looking at “gun crime” statistics; of course if you start confiscating arms “gun crime” will drop. Look at simple “crime” statistics.

    If you do, you’ll see that Australia’s gun laws have done next to nothing to reduce crime.

    It’s clear that you don’t want to though, because if you do your own “ill informed” arguments become baseless very quickly.

  7. Im a lefty who believes in the 2nd amendment but i have a question for all you arm everyone folks out there…… should govt regulate who is allowed to buy guns and how many and which types????? I feel any1 who says every1 should be armed is like someone who says we should disarm every1.

  8. Chris from Australia, you are a sad misinformed sheep. Guns are not banned in Australia, only certain types and calibres.

    Their are hundreds of thousands legal hunting and sporting firearms in the Australian community right now. These are Law Abiding Citizens from all walks of life; politicans, Medical Professionals, Lawyers, Tradesmen, Housewives……..

    The guy next-door or the Lady across the street could be one of us. You wouldn’t know because we just get on with things, we don’t wringing our hands over what other people are lawfully doing with their time, money, and possessions.

    Most people in Australia don’t give a crap what you think Chris, they know that guns have a place and if they need a gun they own it. Or they know that guns have a place but they don’t need one themselves and don’t interfere for those that do.

    Most people realise that there are ill or evil people amongst us and if the time comes its better to have an effective self-defence option than cower under a rock waiting to be slaughtered.

    Most people have heard all your fanasty fears about gun ownership by Lawful Citizens, but have enough sense to look to the Real-Life proving ground. The success of CCW, replicated over and over in a number of States, has shown that In Practise your Fears are just an ill concieved Theory.

    And please don’t send your bogus stats off-shore and embarass yourself internationally. The fact is those figures are tainted by Suicide by Firearm, and since the 1996 Gun Control steal-back, Suicide has continued to grow with Firearms being substituted by other methods.

    Since you want to preach internationally Chris, look at the UK and the disaster it has been. UK Police have actually started carrying sidearms due to the massive increase in handgun crime since the ban. Or how about New Zealand, who have left their Gun Laws as per Australia pre-1996 but haven’t had increased gun crime.

    In Australia people would feel much safer if the money wasted on buy-backs, bans, and firearm registration was spent on Mental Health so the loonies weren’t on the grass.

    But above all, thoughts and condolences to the People of Norway. When the time is right hopefully they can have a mture debate on the risks of abrogating personal defence to the State and the efficacy of CCW.

  9. AND DON’T YOU EVER FORGET YOU GAVE YOU YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT AND FREE SPEECH

    GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

  10. Let me start off by saying that Americans should keep their guns and the status quo. They should definitely not disarm.

    But, when an American decides to apply his logic to the rest of the world without regard for how other countries work, then he is wrong. This is hard for conservatives to understand because they see anyone who supports different values for different situations as morally bankrupt, but what you don’t understand is that guns aren’t a natural god-given right in other countries the same way other countries have “rights” that Americans don’t. For example a native born Dubai person has the right to a free salary and free government services, for life. Something that would tie Americans up in knots. Some countries have healthcare as a right. And so on. Arguably the only universal rights are mobility rights (the right to leave your country if you dislike its policies) and the right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment.

    By the way there is no race to “tar” conservatives. The man was a self-identified conservative, uses the word conservative in his manifesto over and over and generally supports conservative policies like anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism. But the most important thing is he is a self-proclaimed conservative, not a faker and not a plant. He really believes in what he’s saying and doing. If you think news outlets shouldn’t report these facts just because of the consequences, then maybe you don’t support freedom as much as you think you do.

  11. When seconds count, the police are only 90 minutes away. I am happy (and a little shocked) to see the vast majority of the people commenting on here agree with the article and think with reason and logic. Usually these types of articles are trashed by loudmouth liberal lunies who have nothing to offer but nonsense.

  12. mika; You are an idiot. Nowhere in my article did I say anything about arming kids. But since you brought it up. IF the ages were 16 and up then I see no problem with those over 18 having guns. Trained 18 yr olds fight our wars with very powerful guns. Why shouldn’t they be able to defend themselves at home?

    Chris: WOW, Aussie crimes? Aussie land is an ISLAND. You can control your imports of weapons better than the USA. Partly because OUR government is sending GUNS south faster and more furious…. The other thing is your statistics you site are BULLSHIT.

    Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, “Since Australia’s 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.”

    So ask yourself asshole, since murder’s fell by 3% you say it’s a success? a 51% jump percent in ARMED Robberies is acceptable? A “Manslaughter” jump of 16% is okay? Even though manslaughter is something like bat to the head or a car during a robbery? What in the hell is wrong with you? You are surely some type of moron they aint got a name for yet.

    Kevin: Thanks, and use it as you will…

    Fred, well said.

    Dave: Yep some idiots like Chris there would have you unarmed and helpless because you don’t need to protect yourself. The gubmint will do it… Um, didn’t work so well for the folks on the island did it?

    Angel, Yes it will. And if we allow the governments of the world to disarm the populations this stuff will continue to happen.

    Mac, Golf Clap and standing OVATION. well said.

    Joe, Well some real strong men and women did it. I’m not real sure we got that kind of mettle now.

    Brian, I’m not into the status quo. I want to remove the infringements to our second amendment rights. I want every state in the nation to be a “Carry at will” state like AZ. I’m waiting, since AZ has gone to Carry W/O permission/Open/Concealed the crime rate has not increased. It has actually decreased the amount of INNOCENT victims. The gang crimes are steady. The gangbanger murders haven’t gone up in frequency nor down. Which IMO is OKAY. Let them kill themselves, if they run out of ammo call me I’ll hook em up.

    In case you missed it, I am an AMERICAN. I don’t give a crap if another country adopts our rights or doesn’t. My position is to defend MY RIGHTS. And since this incident in Norway has been used as an example for the anti-gun crowd I merely pointed out the fact that if MORE than the assailant had a gun, 93 people wouldn’t have died.

    Ask yourself this question: Why do these things only happen in LIBERAL/DEMOCRAT/Communist/Socialist gatherings? Because those ideologies teach you to be submissive to the greater good (Government) Us conservatives are cognizant of reality. We believe WE protect ourselves better than the Government can.

    Bill Ofrights, yeah they do come out of the woodwork but they get roundly abused, they get a light shined upon them by a smarter than the average gun rights advocate. They can’t dispute facts, they can’t dispute logic all they have is name calling and that gets deleted.

    Thanks for all your comments ya’ll. Stand and fight the lies from the left. The gun grabbers and Liberpukes will be using this incident to paint us as killers We aint YET.

  13. I never heard of an incident where a civilian use a gun to stop an attacker amid a massacre, so stop the gun-right advocate bullshit. In Asia, people are not dying of mass shooting. Wake up, Western people.

    1. Okay Asianmade… You say “never heard of an incident where a civilian use a gun to stop an attacker amid a massacre” Do you know why? It’s actually pretty simple… Look at WHERE these massacres take place “GUN FREE ZONES” meaning NO OTHER LEGAL GUNS ON SITE! You also mention that in Asia people are not dying of mass shooting.. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? Let’s see Asia is made up of several countries. Malaysia, Vietnam, Iran, Lebanon, North Korea, China, and several others who in history have KILLED THEIR OWN PEOPLE!! You are absolutely the dumbest SOB that has ever commented here. The killing fields, the Viet Cong, The documented MURDER OF MILLIONS BY Their own government… yeah not seen anything like that huh? WOW.

  14. Robert, these things happen more at what you would call unconservative gatherings because they are specifically targeted because of their ideology. Not because this man decided to go on a killing spree and picked the most tactically superior scenario with the most weaklings. Even if the liberals were armed to the teeth he would have picked a gathering like this, because he wanted to kill liberals. We can argue all day about the kill count, but in the end he would have killed, and killed many.

    I agree that conservatives are better at protecting themselves (it’s why conservatives are elected in times of war) but that doesn’t mean liberals should sacrifice their values to feel a little safer. They have completely different priorities — you say you don’t care about gangbangers, but the main issue for those in cities and especially the inner city is gangbangers and more importantly the chance their children will join a gang which is really simple because they’re children and you can’t watch them all the time.

    This is why cities ban handguns and ban concealed carry to the chagrin of gun owners and rural people, because they have to, to get the laws in the books to go after gangbangers. Gang wars always create problems for those outside the gangs, if not in deaths then in the protection money businesses have to pay. These are issues that conservatives don’t understand, because they don’t live in the inner city so like you they don’t care. And they have enough money for private schools, so they don’t care. And before you say it’s their fault for not having enough money, somebody has to do those low paying jobs and not everyone can sit behind an office desk or make a lot of money. Gangs to children are like candy which is why inner city people are so concerned about them, because no matter how well you raise your children a gangbanger could lure your kid into a gang. So yes, you have to go after gangs and there’s two real ways, guns and drugs.

    The very meaning of conservative is the status quo. To be careful, to not upset things which have been working for years, to not do social experiments. To hear you say it there are no conservatives who support gun control (there are). Your views would be one giant social experiment to allow every American to be as heavily armed as they want. You just don’t see it that way, which is unfortunate. Every state in the nation should do what is best for that particular state, not some blanket interpretation of the Federal constitution. Ironically you want to give people more freedoms, but you absolutely want to deny city slickers the freedom to run their city the way they want. The idea to restrict weapons in city limits is not a socialist or liberal conspiracy but an idea as old as when cities existed.

  15. Brian, hell yes I’ll argue a couple of your points:

    1st; The kill count, He may have got one or two but I guarantee you a double digit count WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED! That’s a fact.

    2nd; He picked the island for two reasons: 1 ideological/political reason. 2. Risk assessment pointed to a very high success probability. WHY? Because he knew for a fact the people there subscribed to a particular ideology he was opposed to and knew he’d have the only firearms on the island.

    3rd; Yes I don’t give a rats ass about gangbangers if they’re killing themselves. I do however have a real problem with them killing innocents. This is why I am a proponent in the death penalty for ANYONE with gang ties involved in the murder/injury of someone NOT in a gang. And I don’t mean waiting on DR for 30 years. I mean after trial hang the POS. You obviously subscribe to the belief that you can’t watch kids all the time so they will eventually join a gang or something. Well I have raised 2 kids, I was a kid My friends have kids… None of them are or have been in a gang. WHY? We were PARENTS not FRIENDS. We didn’t set an example by BEING IN PRISON for gang crimes… I say the Parents should serve time with their kids… Maybe it’s just me but I’m sick of the excuses for bad behavior. Consequences for poor decisions make for better decisions. No consequences for bad decisions result in WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW!

    NO REAL CONSERVATIVE SUPPORTS GUN CONTROL. Unless you mean using both hands and putting rounds on target. Do I want EVERYONE to be armed. I want EVERYONE to have the CHOICE. IF you feel you don’t want a gun, you should be FREE to NOT OWN ONE. But if I want a damn .50 Cal BMG and 3 concealed XD’s in various calibers on my person at all times I WANT THAT CHOICE TOO.

    Conservatives are not telling you to buy/conceal/open carry a gun. Why do people try and tell me not to? Why do people see this type of murder/mayhem and blame the guns or the ideology rather than the PERSON? WHY in the hell does it make sense to anyone. It’s fucking bizarre.

  16. One more thing nobody seems to be grasping… Janet Nutitano a couple weeks ago started talking about “Right wing” terrorism. Did they have “Chatter” in the intelligence community about an attack coming? Did they have some sort of knowledge about this prior to it happening?

    Perhaps they did and used it to paint US conservatives as the real terrorists and scare folks about “Guns” all while they are sending guns to Mexico all willy nilly like…

    The question I ask is because I like to know WHO benefits from this action? who’s cause is furthered? This type of action doesn’t further Islam when they do it. It doesn’t further us on the right because WE DON’T WANT MORE CONTROL over our lives from Government. It only furthers the LEFT because their ideology demands MORE intrusion and regulation over you. When will people wake up to the reality that is our current political system? I hope soon.

  17. yea, brian seems to be comming from a slightly looney tunes angle…urban gun laws were put into effect by elitist mayors who like to have complete power over those who live in those cities.

    hey asianmade, the biggest shooting before this shit in norway happened in south korea and was perpetrated by a man named woo bum kon, he killed 57 people before killing himself with a grenade in 1982………so much for asians setting an example for the rest of us…..

  18. so thats why there are so few crimes in the USA, because there are so many guns, I see… you are already sheep, you just don realize it while polishing your barrel.

    1. Seriously Sebastian, are you that clueless? WE the People are NOT sheep. We’re the wolves trying to wake up the sheep. And if polishing the barrel helps….Oh well.

      Hurr, Your comment won’t see the light of day. You’re too stupid to be allowed to comment.

  19. I am not against firearms at all, Gun Control is not the answer. Just because a registered firearm was used in a slaughter, doesn’t mean that there won’t ever be a massacre with an unregistered firearm – not far from where I live, at night time when everyone was in bed, automatic gunshots erupted at a golf-course, police suspect that it was a AK-47 – some 90 rounds had been fired off, bullet casings were everywhere and the field had been shot up. – unregistered weapons are everywhere, and until they are eradicated – gun control is a no-brainer. Police sometimes don’t respond to domestic disturbances, and when they do it’s almost always too late. Women aren’t even allowed to carry pepper spray – so they are raped. It seems the laws these lawyers have passed, give criminals more rights than law abiding citizens. Forget about a justice system here in Canada, and it’s even more ridiculous in England, I’m told. I’m not sure how things work in Australia, but I know that their gun laws are really strict like England, and they can’t even own semiautomatics.

  20. Norwegians does not cry out for arming the public or blood revenge for this terrorist, we ansver with compassion and love for the victims and a strong belief in our democracy. He will spend the rest of his days behind bars there is no doubt about that, and he may burn in hell, but we do not need to arm the public to protect our democracy and freedom, we have proven that by making Norway one of the best and secure countries in the world. You may argue that the number of dead people on Utoya Island would be lower if they all were armed but we would rather live with some risk than give up our way of living. Our police are still unarmed when patroling our streets, this actually makes us feel secure, and I do not think that this extreme act of violence will change this.

    1. Norwgien; Yep and that’s YOUR choice. We in America have a CHOICE too. We have a CHOICE to give up the one tool that gives us CHOICES in our lives. We CHOOSE to not be victims, We CHOOSE to have a vote on our lively hood and we CHOOSE to be able to protect ourselves from those that wish to do us harm. You have made your choice. Your country has decided it can protect you without firearms. You’re population has decided that it can keep bad people and bad guns from your land and everyone will live in peace and harmony… And for the most part you have. I only hope that NOW after this MORE people don’t see your perceived “Weakness” and your country as a soft target. You neighbor Swtizerland is the total opposite of Norway. Personally I’d feel A LOT safer in Switzerland. Good luck with your “Love the criminals away”

      And from what I’ve read 30 yrs is all the guy can get in jail. I wonder what the prisons are like in Norway?

  21. First off we do not love criminals away or otherwise, we just do not let them make us afraid, so afraid that we feel the need to bring guns every where we go. Sweden is our neighbour country, and there the police have been armed since 1965. The funny thing is that there is not a big difference between us. We are much the same in culture and politics. You are right in that 30 years is the longest prison sentence you can get in Norway, but the is an option of a 5 year extension every 5 years after that. I can tell you that our maximum security prisons probably are not like the US ones but they are not a kindergarten either.
    You are right in that we all have a choice in how to live our lives. I just wanted you to know, there are ways to do it successfully with out arming your selves. To round off, here are some facts for you. We are about 4.5 million people in Norway. 24 police officers have been killed in the line of duty in the last 65 years. (We had some nazi here for 5 years but they left in 1945, and our police was reinstated when they left) In Los Angeles with its 4 million people 203 police officers have been killed in the last 100 years. I do not think that our police officers are better drivers. Do you?

    1. Norwegian, You have the same type issues we have with immigration (Yours is Islamic) Our problem is South American more. We have an open border. We have a large amount of violence to our south that has infested our nation. We have a a problem with education, we have serious problems with crime and punishment. Our cultures are WORLDS apart. You have in your nation a culture that WAS fairly peaceful. Your culture is based on the collective good. Our culture is based on individual good. (Or it was) Our culture has given to the world MANY MANY inventions and services because of that culture. We’ve also had our share of dumbassery in the advance of our beliefs. Good with the bad. Like it or not, what the shooter did in your nation is something that will happen more often as time goes on. WHY? Because of the “Multiculturalism” that is allowed to infest a nation without assimilation. That’s the real problem. IF I moved to Norway, would I be accepted if I brought my guns, my belief in self liberty, freedom to speak my mind and demanded that NORWAY change to suit me? OF course not. But that’s what’s happening to Western nations. Your neighbor the Swiss have at least ARMED their citizens to be able to protect themselves from what’s coming.

      Your nation is in mourning over these murders I understand that. I also understand your defense of your culture. You have my condolences. But that’s it. I wish you guys would wake up sooner rather than later. Because as your nation is an ally of the USA you are a target. And your culture is going to come under attack for your willingness to “Appease” those who would do you harm, whether that’s from within or without. Whether it’s from the RIGHT or the LEFT, there is going to be more of these types of occurrences on your land and I can’t stand the fact that your people will be sitting ducks while your leaders are surrounded by firearms on the hips of their guards. As I said in many of my pro-gun rants. I’ll give up my firearms when NOBODY else has them. Including MY GOVERNMENT. Until then “Come and get em”

  22. I live in Arizona, where Congresswoman Giffords was recently shot by a crazy person (it should be noted she was not in fact in a “gun free zone” and I have seen no evidence to suggest that most shootings are). People managed to knock him down and take his weapon without the use of additional firearms. Would fewer people have died or been injured if there was another person with a gun? Maybe. Could more people have been hurt if someone else had a gun? Maybe. Crazy violent people will find ways to hurt others and in all likelihood that won’t change. The question is whether guns can help, and I don’t think they can in most people’s hands. Here are some things to think about, the requirements to get a gun in most places in the USA are ridiculous. Most states don’t screen for histories of violence or mental illness, and most states don’t seem to require any training with the weapons at all. I am not completely anti-gun, but I am anti-irresponsible gun use. And although I won’t accuse anyone here of being pro-irresponsiblity, I think it is important to point out that the major gun lobbies in the USA (read NRA) seem to only ever want to make it less-restrictive and thus more irresponsible. I do appreciate people who take the time to take gun safety classes, and honestly I think that everyone should take one in highschool regardless of whether or not they own a gun, but those classes don’t prepare you to fire a gun at another human being in a high risk situation. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but in WW2, shots fired by trained soldiers hit human targets less than 25% of the time, as people instinctively pull away at the last minute, even when firing at Nazis. Do we want people armed with guns but unprepared to actually use them? The only way the US military improved those numbers were intensive wargames and borderline brainwashing. Until we are prepared as a country to institute that kind of training for every individual who owns a gun, I don’t believe that guns will be able to serve the protective function that you hope they will. And, until we do mandate that kind of training, I feel the only responsible thing to do is to not give people access to a deadly instrument that in the wrong hands (malicious or not) can make any bad situation that much worse.

    1. Nick, that’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard… Yeah an unarmed person knocking down a crazed shooter is better than shooting the fkr in the head? Um yeah Tucson was a gun free zone because NOBODY ELSE IN THE AREA HAD A GUN! Their ideology kept them from being armed. PERIOD.

      You say “There’s no evidence that these only occur in gun free zones?” tell me son, when was the last mass shooting you saw at an Arizona NRA rally? At a Gun Show? At a CONSERVATIVE Gathering where GUNS are allowed in the building? It doesn’t happen for a reason. Criminals are STUPID. but they aren’t THAT STUPID!

  23. Robert, it seems to me that any thing that goes against a unilateral guns are good stance is the dumbest thing you have ever heard, and I am sorry to see that there is no room for subtlety here. As to your claims, perhaps you are unaware that Arizona has the most pro-gun and relaxed legislation for owning guns in the country. In addition, there have been shootings at gunshows, police stations and military bases where there are many many guns and gun users. So while I won’t speak to the sanity of criminals, it seems to me that it has happened it can continue to happen.

    My only point is that guns are dangerous in the hands of the untrained, and if we as a country decide that we want guns as a method of self-defense the training standards would need to be increased to levels that I think most civilians would balk at. Maybe, Robert, you have military or paramilitary training, but if someone doesn’t I think they would be more of a liability with a loaded weapon than an asset in the types of situations we are talking about.

  24. Okay Nick How about some citation about where mass shootings have occured at those places. I caution you before hand that the military base you mention(Ft Hood) was a GUN FREE ZONE meaning nobody other than the MP’s had side arms. And the ones that were closest to the scene responded with gunfire and shot the Muslim terrorist. Had the room been full of military personal carrying their service pistols there wouldn’t have been so many dead. FACT.

    I agree with you in regards to training. However I’ll take my chances with an untrained armed law abiding citizen vs NO arms for anyone other than the criminal. What amazes me is people who DOUBT the FACT that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens during an attempted massacre would be worse than NO ARMS at all other than the murderer. That’s truly bizzaro…

    Would you think a 100lb female would have a better chance avoiding rape with a gun or without? would she pose too much of a threat to the population because she didn’t have proper training therfor should just go ahead and take it? I find that statement you made extremely short in logic.

    Responsible GUN OWNERS are TRAINED GUN OWNERS. FACT. Maybe not professionally trained but at the very least have basic instruction in the use of the weaopn and have practiced with the firearm. ANYONE who has a gun and has not learned at the very least safe handling and the basic rules of gun use is a generally a criminal.. This guy in Norway is more the exeption than the rule.. He was very trained and he did succeeded where others would have been less fortunate.

    Think about it. The Va Tech killer had an entire campus full of unarmed targets. He was only capable of killing few. He was untrained. Ft Hood killer, he made better use of his advantage but was taken out by a GUN. Laughner in Tucson had he had some training similar to the Norway guy, WAY more death would have been the result. All I’m saying is training and firearm safey is all good for RESPONSIBLE gun owners, but for the DERANGED Lunatics they are’nt real concerned with collateral damage.

    You bring up a valid point which is our wimpy society these days. Our law suit mentality, our criminal rights above victim rights. For example: Shooter in a mall, I’m armed and see the guy mowing down grandma’s and kids. He’s shot at leas 10 people before I can get over to the area and get a clean shot. 2 more are shot while I position. I stand behind cover, and fire 3 shots. all three hit the murderer but one passes through the shooter and strikes an innocent in the head killing her. What happens to me? I may have save 25 other lives because I acted but I took one. There is NO measurment for lives saved in a law suit. And Anti-gunners would pounce on the ONE who died of MY bullet. I would sleep well, I wouldn’t shed a tear. I would be okay with my actions. But I’d be in trouble in TODAYS world.

    We must be willing to go as hard for good and the enemy of good goes for bad. We must be ready to stand at all times for the RIGHT. ALWAYS do good anyway.

  25. First, let me say that I am glad that there are at least a few points on which we seem to see eye to eye. Then let me say that a quick search on google will provide you with multiple cases of the former, although you were right in that I was thinking of Ft. Hood. However, I don’t agree that it was a gun free zone. I am not sure if you have ever been a military base, but you are almost never out of sight of a gun. Why? Because they are high security areas. In the end that dude knew he was going to eat it, but low and behold he was a crazy. I feel like we don’t see eye to eye on the whole, “there are no deterants where crazy people are concerned” thing, and I imagine that 90% if not all of shootings of the type we are talking about are perpetrated by the mentally ill.

    That said we may have to agree to disagree on the whole more harm than good debate. It is ultimately a question for which there may not be a whole lot of evidence to support either of our claims.

    I agree that a 100 pound girl might in some instances (where she is aware, not drugged, able to move, able to reach her gun) might be helped by a gun, but under those circumstances so would pepper spray which has far less potential for collateral damage. In the case of the mall, I would be surprised if you hit the bad guy 3/4 times even if at the target range you could do 99/100, there is a major psychological difference shooting at a human being and shooting at a doll, and there is evidence for that. And that would pre-supose you managing to pull your gun in the first place (it wouldn’t surprise me given the rates of gun ownership in AZ if someone at that rally DID have a gun). And finally once again I am back to means of defense with less potential for collateral damage (a taser for example). I just feel like most of the time there is going to be a better way than an un combat trained civilian firing off lethal ordinance under high adrenaline situations.

    Finally, as for the issue of good samaritan laws (I am not sure how we got there, actually), I actually am not sure where I stand on those, it is, of course, a very complicated issue, applies to many situations in which it is warranted and some where it may not be, and not all states have them. Something to think about I suppose.

    Anyway closing thought before I head back to Commie Moonbat Land (or whatever)…Guns don’t kill people, People who mishandle dangerous weapons kill people, and I don’t see a particular reason (even constitutionally if you read it carefully) why we should allow it (P.S. I think it is also too easy to get a drivers license, too many shitty drivers out there).

  26. Norway does not have issues with the islamic immigration. That is the rantings of a deranged terrorist. And you are right in that our cultures are different in many ways. If you came to Norway you could speak your mind anywhere. You could use your democratic rights to make change, but I think that you would realize that our governments guns are not pointed at the people because the people is the government. Our guns are usually pointed where ever the US tells us. If you think that norwegians do not have guns I can tell you that there are more than 1.3 million registered privately owned guns here, that might be more than the Swiss, but they are all locked in gunlockers. We like to go hunting and target shooting but do not feel the need to carry them with us for protection. As for being a soft NATO ally, our armed forces are very able. Every man, and a lot of our women, has 12 months training in the armed forces.
    And still we use our democracy to make change, not guns. We feel free and safe knowing that nobody is carrying guns in the streets.

  27. First let me address Nick:
    Ft Hood YES there were guns on base. NO the regular duty servicemen WERE NOT ALLOWED to carry on base. FACT. Do a google search and see for yourself. It was in fact a gun free zone. That’s why POLICE OFFICERS took him down. NO GUNS in the room other than the shooter. FACT.

    If you open your eyes just a tad you’ll see the logic in my assertion that a gun in the hands of the people is far better than the people NOT having a gun during a shooting like these we discuss. I’d like to arm you with a taser and surround you with 5yr olds. Then allow a mass murdering criminal armed with an illegal fully auto AK-47 access to the room you all are in… And I wonder what the first words out of your mouth would be? Would it be “This sucks” or would it be “Damn I wish I had a way to protect these kids?”… The absurdity of the argument about guns is ridiculous.

    You say shootings have occurred at Gun shows and conservative gatherings… Maybe they have but what’s the body count? You ever see anyone mow down an NRA crowd in a gun permissive zone? Hell no. the body count is will always be lower. FACT.

    But I guess it doesn’t fit the meme of gun control is better than total gun chaos. AZ has had open/concealed carry for a year now and NO MASS MURDERS there’s been no gun fights in the streets between two old ladies fighting for a parking..

    FACT is CRIME has dropped since AZ instituted their laws. Murder of INNOCENTS has dropped violent crime has DROPPED. PERIOD. Logic should not be this hard Nick.. come on board there’s some room…

    Norwegian, You say you don’t have a problem with Islamic immigration…. Yea we didn’t have a problem with Mexican immigration either at one time. I’ll take the Mexican (LEGAL) immigrants over the islamic ones any day.

    Good for you that you feel your gubmint is taking good care of you. I’m glad you live in a eutopia of humanity. Make sure you mention that at the funerals of these 70 something deaths. While you are happy about your quaint little lives in Norway and arguing about your freedoms and what-not. realize there’s millions of Islamic radicals that read the news. They understand exactly how easy this was for a lone wolf actor to create chaos and mayhem. They just got a lesson that your country is a very soft western target… Be safe.

  28. We don’t live in Utopia, as I wrote earlier the majority of us are trained in the armed forces and there are very few hardcore pacifist in Norway.
    We have our problems here as any democracy should have. Immigration, asylum and intergration policies are discussed daily, but whether or not we should arm the public is never a topic.
    I realize that this must be hard to understand for someone with your background and standpoint as I can’t put my self in your situation.
    Hand guns are useless against bombs and most terrorists use bombs these days.
    As for being a target of islamic terrorists, we are a small peace talking nation the US is a war talking giant.
    The impact of attacking any Scandinavian country vs the US is very small. That said, we lost our “innocence” on friday and we know this could happen again.
    Any extremist groups or individuals will be watched closely from now on.
    I wish for your safety too, and hope you’r never put in a situation were you have to use your gun on anybody.

    1. Well as I said to each is own. Your country went left for the most part and CHOSE to restrict firearms on their population. That is a CHOICE. My opinion and millions of others in America is WE were reated through the barrel of a gun because discussion with tyrants doesn’t work very often. We in America love our freedom and we’ve been watching them disappear from our society day by day. We are rapidly approaching a line in the sand. I’d like for ALL of my readers to understand this next point.
      WITHOUT our 2nd Amendment where do you think we’d be? The fact that the world knows WE have a majority of our population that is GUN FRIENDLY has kept our shores from being invaded by armed aggressors. Our right to protect ourselves has caused many to rethink their tactics when disagreeing with us on world affairs. And it’s cause our own government pause when trying to force idiocy upon us. The problem is NOW they know we have been too comfortable in our security and continue to try and force us into a EUROPEAN type life. We real Americans will not allow it. We will fight that at the ballot box first and if needed will take it back to the fields…

      I’ll give you this. The gun won’t keep you safe from Bombs. But Bombs didn’t kill 68 people on an island in your nation. One man with a gun that was illegal in your nation (Unless special permission was granted as a collector)

      You say you hope I don’t have to use my gun on anyone. If I do ever have to use it, it will be to prevent harm to me or mine or innocent civilians. It will be without fear and it will be lethal without exception. I hope I still have the right to have the ability to CHOOSE my tactic in the event of harm coming to the above citizens if the time comes. The choice between cowering in a corner and hoping the gunman doesn’t shoot me is a poor tactic. Just sayin.

  29. I will use your mall shooting scenario. Every thing happens as you described but when you pull the trigger the crazy gunman moves, you miss and hit a 9 year old girl in the face. Will you still sleep well at night knowing you did “the right thing”? Are you the hero who tried to stop a crazy man or will you be condemned by every one? Isn’t the idea if opening fire in a crowded confined space unthinkable or are people that happens to be in the path of your bullets expendable?

    1. Okay What are you.. It’s obvious you’re an idiot but I’ll humor you. What is one of the first rules of shooting? One states KNOW WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR TARGET. Your thinking is why gunmen kill so many. Too much cowardice and what if’s… Let me tell you I’ll take the shot, it will be a carefully placed shot that’s why you will notice the “PASS THROUGH” scenario. I will hit my target. Most GOOD AMERICANS have had range time, ARE FAMILIAR with their firearm, And If I carry’d into a crowded mall and this happened. IF you daughter was next on the gunmans hit list should I take the shot? or take your chances with the gunman aiming at your kid? IF I shot a 9yo girl in the face as the gunman was killing 2 or 3 and working his way down the line of 12 kids, he was stopped at 3 by my second bullet counting my 1 (In your dumbassery) the total death count was 4 so I’d have saved 8.. But idiots like you would be blaming me for killing the 9yo…. Not blaming the guy shooting them in the first place, not saying thank GOD someone took action and stopped the death at 4… That’s the difference between you and me, I’d heap praise on someone who acted and stopped it. You’d blame everyone but the shooter….I say again IDIOT.

  30. I did notice the pass through scenario, and I noticed that you state that one of the first rules is know what is behind your target. In your scenario you break that rule, and you call me an idiot? I guess that makes you a complete idiot who is not fit to carry a gun in public. I don’t think you are fit to own a gun at all because you are not smart enough. Next time you call some one an idiot make sure you don’t contradict your self in doing so. I would blame you for shootinh the 9 yo. Any court in any country would too along with the other shooter. There is no way to know if that girl would have died and I don’t think you would have praised a man who killed your daughter. If you would praise such a man, then you don’t have a family of your own and all your rantings about protecting them are completely void.

    1. What are you… Yes you’re an idiot. Thanks for proving it. A gunman going down a line of cowering children shooting them. You say an armed civilian should not take action to save them? WOW… the moron in you is strong… A pass through can happen and does happen. I would heap praise on an individual who acted with intent to halt the killings of innocents. I guess we know why there are so many victims now if anyone else thinks like this idiot please raise your hands and surrender your wallet and your lives… MORONS…

  31. The guys of the NRA must be pulling their hair out by now. It is 17 yo mentally challenged boys like you lacking the capasity to understand what you are saying that make people want more gun control laws. So do me a big favour, be more active on sites like these, in the end you’ll have to surrender your bb-gun too.

    1. Oh yeah that’s a fact dumbass, my buddies who are not only Members of the NRA but actually board members have had discussions about this very thing. Not ONE of them would fault the man who took action to protect life. You are the extreme version of idiocy if you would take your chances that the gunmans gun would jam or misfire while it’s pointed at your head rather than have someone step in and try to stop it. I would like you to send me your picture though. Just in case I ever happen to be that man who would step in and seen you cowering in the corner hoping for a misfire. I’ll hope with you instead of pulling out my iron to save your worthless ass.

  32. Logic isn’t your strong point. I think you should start from the top where it say “use facts and common sense” and then read your own posts to see where you failed. I dear you to back up any of your “facts” with statistics, research or articles. You can even use the NRA sites if you want to tell me where it says it’s ok to kill innocent by standers.
    You shouldn’t listen in on grown people talk because you confuse one thing for another. And Robert listen carefully: Please find some professional help for your psychotic tendecies before you find your self at a mall shooting up the place.
    And in regards to the picture, post your full name and address and I’ll send it immediately.

  33. See dumbass, you have brought yourself to the realization that it’s okay to ALLOW INNOCENT people do die because you wouldn’t want to risk hurting one in the process. I find that totally repulsive. You do all you can to protect innocent lives but in the end you must chose to act or watch. My scenario DUMBASS was one in which a gunman was slaughtering innocent people, And YOU would rather my gun stay holstered than to intervene? WOW.. Yeah you are a wimp, a coward and the supreme example of a dumbass.

    I can’t for the life of me see the reaon for such idiocy other than you’ve been brought up to be a victim and anyone stopping that is a criminal.. Have a nice life idiot.

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